porter or stout

I am fairly new to homebrewing (I've done some wine and cider, but no beer), and want to have a go at a porter or stout. I have been looking for recipes that really emphasize the chocolatey-ness, and ran into a few issues.

Should I use black patent and crystal malt or chocolate malt, or a combo of them?

I also want to add cocoa powder, and read someone's recipe that heated it with water and the lactose they planned to add, to make a syrup. Add that to primary?

Any suggestions or advice from people who have made a good porter or stout with some heavy chocolate overtones would be greatly appreciated. If you have a tried and true recipe, all the better! Thanks!

If you are new to brewing then the best thing you can do is keep it simple and go for a tried and tested recipe.

Here's an example of a nice easy brown porter.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.85 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 83.5 %
0.50 kg Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 10.8 %
0.26 kg Chocolate Malt (456.9 SRM) Grain 5.6 %
55.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 28.7 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [4.50%] (15 min) Hops 3.9 IBU
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

You can change the Pale malt grain to Extract if needed.
If you wanted it to have a more bitter roasted flavour then add a little Black.
If you really want roastiness with out more harshness then add more chocolate

I don't tend to keep things to simple, but here is a great stout that I brewed up with a nice sweet chocolatey undertone.

Gold Rush Milk Stout

5.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 62.5 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 90L (90.0 SRM) Grain 12.5 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 %
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 3.1 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (Briess) (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.1 %
1.00 oz Brewer's Gold [8.00%] (60 min) Hops 26.2 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (30 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
0.50 oz First Gold [7.50%] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
0.50 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6.3 %
1 Pkgs Windsor (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

The chocolate malt will tend to be a little bit less aggressive than either the black patent or the roasted barley. Sounds like you're looking for a porter, or even really an English Brown Ale (I think Southern English Browns tend to be sweeter than Northern; I could have that backwards).

EDIT: style guidelines for these beer types: http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category11.html

Here's a link to my stout recipe, should be pretty simple for a beginner.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=26912

You can substitute Safale-04 dry yeast as it will be much easier to work with for your first brew.

I also dug this out of my recipe bank, it was a definate crowd pleaser and a little easier than the one I posted above...

Mocha Porter

0.25 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 3.0 %
7.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 84.9 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6.1 %
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 27.2 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (10 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
1 Pkgs British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) Yeast-Ale

Wow, this is great! Thanks for all of the recipes and advice! I am going to head to the hb store tonight and take a couple of these recipes with me. Who knows, I just might be convinced to buy another primary and try two at once!

Would the 1-2-3 system of fermentation and bottling be appropriate for this type of brew? I'd like this to be ready by Thanksgiving, but can definitely wait if it will be better with more time.

Thanks again for all of the great replies!

If you are brewing an ale then 1-2-3 method works fine. But if you are wanting to lager then thats a different story.

The simple porter is designed to be a 5 week brew. It should get better over a few weeks from then.

jmulligan said:

Would the 1-2-3 system of fermentation and bottling be appropriate for this type of brew? I'd like this to be ready by Thanksgiving, but can definitely wait if it will be better with more time.

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make sure you get a hydrometer if you don't already have one. don't transfer from primary until you've reached your target FG (and don't transfer any sooner than a week)

have a good time brewing!

My stout is typically ready in 5 to 6 weeks. I have found it is best if drunk between 2 and 3 months from brew day, after that it starts to lose something although it is still pretty darn good.

I went to the homebrew store and (with the help of the friendly owner) came up with a very slightly modified version of ilikestuff's Gold Rush Milk Stout (see above post):

7 lbs. amber malt extract
1 lb. caramel/crystal malt
0.5 lb. cara-pils/dextrine
0.5 lb. chocolate malt
0.25 lb. black patent malt
0.25 lb. roasted barley
1 lb. 6-row pale malt (the owner suggested adding this for the enzymes it provides)
0.7 oz Nugget (11.5%) - 60 minutes
0.5 oz Kent Goldings (5.0%) - 30 minutes
0.5 oz Nugget - 10 minutes
0.5 lb lactose
1 pkg Wyeast Activator Irish Ale yeast

I am very excited to get started this weekend to put this together. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice. It's great how generous everyone is with their experience and knowledge here!

Looks pretty good - did he explain to you about how to do the partial mash? It's easy, you just have to be a bit more careful with temperatures than if you were just steeping.

the_bird said:

Looks pretty good - did he explain to you about how to do the partial mash? It's easy, you just have to be a bit more careful with temperatures than if you were just steeping.

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The store owner told me I should bring it up to about 150-160 F and to hold it there for about 45 minutes. He included a pretty complete-looking set of instructions with the ingredients that I bought. Is that temperature range that I should shoot for?

It may have been easier to do an extract-only beer for my first run, but from what I've read, the partial mash is worth the slight amount of extra effort.

That's right. Do you know how to sparge?

orfy said:

That's right. Do you know how to sparge?

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I think I've got an idea of how to do it. I want to pour water that's a bit hotter (165-170 F?) over the grains to remove more of the sugars, correct?

Yes.

When mashing if you have it on direct heat take it up to 170°F at the end then drain. Then rinse the grains in 170°F water.

Take the mash water and sparge wort (Wort) and top up to the boil volume you want or have been recommended to use.

Boil for 60 minutes to get the hop schedule and add the extract at 50 minutes.

Top off to your required capacity and pitch the yeast once cooled to <77°f

Let us know how it turns out for you.

Well, I brewed my first beer (the milk stout) yesterday! My entire apartment (and the outer hallway) smelled like burnt coffee and hops. =) I borrowed my parents' turkey fryer pot until I can invest in a nice stainless steel 20 or 24 qt pot. No boil overs, but I definitely need to get a wort chiller - the ice bath in the tub was not ideal. O.G. was 1.072. Anyway, thanks for all the advice - here are some pictures of brew day:

Looks good, should turn out to be a good beer. The OG of 1.072 will give it a nice kick

Racked over to secondary tonight. S.G. was 1.030 (down from O.G. of 1.072). Took a taste - malty, slightly chocolatey, and a taste of alcohol. Not too bad. I think it will be pretty good once it's actually bottled and ready to go. More pics for your viewing pleasure:

I was reading somewhere (I think BYO, maybe?) That a Stout is actually a Porter....or vice-a-versa. They're actually the same style....or at least derived from the same style....according to whatever I was reading at the time.

talleymonster said:

I was reading somewhere (I think BYO, maybe?) That a Stout is actually a Porter....or vice-a-versa. They're actually the same style....or at least derived from the same style....according to whatever I was reading at the time.

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I think you are correct - it's the whole rectangle/square thing. A stout is always a porter, but a porter isn't always a stout. I believe stouts developed after porters and are just stronger (flavor?).

yes, now that I really think about it, it was in the last issue of BYO....pretty sure. I've been drinking tonight

Just wanted to post an update about how this beer came out...

Fantastic!

It has been in the bottle for about 11 months, and really hit its peak in the past month or two. The flavor was deep, complex with chocolate, caramel, and roasted undertones. This was my first beer (PM), so now that it's coming up on one year since I started brewing, I think I'll give this bad boy another go, only AG-style.

Sadly, the last was consumed about 2 weeks ago.

I saw this thread in My Replies and had no idea what it was, no wonder, its a year old.

Congrats on the success, I had actually forgotten all about this recipe, maybe it's time to give it another go.

Ah, you got me with a name change! Thanks for the recipe, it turned out soooo well.

Yeah, I was thinking I don't remember the posts.
Glad the help advice helped.